You can read a more current CC review here. I hope you find these posts helpful as you explore the right avenues for your homeschooling adventure.
-Christy
December 4, 2013
__________________________________
We’re well into March, and all home schooling moms know what that means: time to think about next year. It matters not that we have three months left in this school year; inevitably, thoughts, dreams, plans for 2011 – 2012 will begin rolling around in lots of home schooling moms’ minds.
The bad: It’s a lot of rote memorization in the early years, K – 6. That’s not inherently wrong, but after paying what you’re going to pay, I expected some integration with other materials. Yes, someone’s going to say CC offers lots of books that go along with whatever cycle you’re on. True. But I expected the tutor (who is paid) to select some appropriate materials for the entire class to read and discuss together. This did not happen because CC only focuses on the memorization at this stage.
The ugly: Classical Conversations likes to claim it has “trained tutors,” but this is simply not true. I guess technically, it is, because each tutor attends a three day training seminar. But three days to understand the high-level math, science and literature is simply not enough time. Oh, and did I mention that each tutor also teaches Latin and logic? Three days would hardly be enough for one of those subjects, let alone all of them. We were fortunate with Michael’s tutor; he was, indeed, excellent, but he would have been excellent without the three day training. Amy’s “tutor” was a disaster.
Amy’s tutor did not understand the logic program or the Latin pronunciations. She also failed to bring her materials to class not once, but three times in a row. I thought Amy was exaggerating until I sat in the class with her. If anything, Amy soft-pedaled the situation. The woman was hardly fit to teach her own child, much less anyone else’s.
And this is where CC gets sticky: each tutor in grades 7 – 12 is her own “director.” If you have a problem with her, your only recourse is the state CC director. And our state director was completely unmoved by the pleas of the parents in Amy’s class until someone threatened to sue to get her money back. Then, and only then, did we get some action from her.
I won’t go in to the gory details of what happened to us last year, but suffice it to say the Michigan Classical Conversations State Director was more concerned with money than helping homeschool families. Y’all, I am a capitalist and want people to make money. But we’re talking about a Christian homeschool association – I thought, when presented with the fact that she installed an incompetent tutor, she would be concerned for the students. Trust me when I say she was not. And trust me when I say the on-site Lansing CC director (who is still there) cared more about rules than helping students, even when CC didn’t do what it said it would, which is provide a trained tutor.
I realize this is a specific situation and cannot be extrapolated to the whole of CC. But I hope our misadventure will encourage anyone who’s investigating CC to proceed with caution. Carefully interview the tutor. Ask her to actually pronounce a few Latin words. See if he really understands the basics of the logic material. And interview the campus director in addition to the tutor; she is the one who sets the tone for the group. You don’t want one with a stick up her butt. Trust me on this one.
It’s your money, and CC requires quite a bit of it; spend it wisely! Goodness knows if I’d taken these steps instead of trusting the organization to give us what they said they would, we could have avoided an unfortunate year of our homeschool adventure.
-Christy
December 4, 2013
__________________________________
We’re well into March, and all home schooling moms know what that means: time to think about next year. It matters not that we have three months left in this school year; inevitably, thoughts, dreams, plans for 2011 – 2012 will begin rolling around in lots of home schooling moms’ minds.
In my eight years as a home school mom I’ve tried a lot of different curricula, co-ops, tutors and one day a week “schools” that cater to the home school family. Some have been great successes; others, not so much. And while I would never dare say what worked for us will work for another family, in the next few weeks I would like to make a few suggestions for my homeschooling friends.
Today, I’ll start with one that didn’t work: Classical Conversations. I’ve made myself wait a year before writing this; if I’d written last year it wouldn’t have been a helpful review. Thankfully, my 40 years have taught me that sometimes it’s best to sleep on what you’ve written; I slept lots on this one, and feel enough time has passed that I can write an honest, mostly-unemotional review.
First, the good: CC’s materials are excellent. You cannot go wrong with the majority of their books, and the history cards are excellent for the younger set.
The ugly: Classical Conversations likes to claim it has “trained tutors,” but this is simply not true. I guess technically, it is, because each tutor attends a three day training seminar. But three days to understand the high-level math, science and literature is simply not enough time. Oh, and did I mention that each tutor also teaches Latin and logic? Three days would hardly be enough for one of those subjects, let alone all of them. We were fortunate with Michael’s tutor; he was, indeed, excellent, but he would have been excellent without the three day training. Amy’s “tutor” was a disaster.
Amy’s tutor did not understand the logic program or the Latin pronunciations. She also failed to bring her materials to class not once, but three times in a row. I thought Amy was exaggerating until I sat in the class with her. If anything, Amy soft-pedaled the situation. The woman was hardly fit to teach her own child, much less anyone else’s.
And this is where CC gets sticky: each tutor in grades 7 – 12 is her own “director.” If you have a problem with her, your only recourse is the state CC director. And our state director was completely unmoved by the pleas of the parents in Amy’s class until someone threatened to sue to get her money back. Then, and only then, did we get some action from her.
I won’t go in to the gory details of what happened to us last year, but suffice it to say the Michigan Classical Conversations State Director was more concerned with money than helping homeschool families. Y’all, I am a capitalist and want people to make money. But we’re talking about a Christian homeschool association – I thought, when presented with the fact that she installed an incompetent tutor, she would be concerned for the students. Trust me when I say she was not. And trust me when I say the on-site Lansing CC director (who is still there) cared more about rules than helping students, even when CC didn’t do what it said it would, which is provide a trained tutor.
I realize this is a specific situation and cannot be extrapolated to the whole of CC. But I hope our misadventure will encourage anyone who’s investigating CC to proceed with caution. Carefully interview the tutor. Ask her to actually pronounce a few Latin words. See if he really understands the basics of the logic material. And interview the campus director in addition to the tutor; she is the one who sets the tone for the group. You don’t want one with a stick up her butt. Trust me on this one.
It’s your money, and CC requires quite a bit of it; spend it wisely! Goodness knows if I’d taken these steps instead of trusting the organization to give us what they said they would, we could have avoided an unfortunate year of our homeschool adventure.
Nicely put. Totally fair and honest, two of the things I love most about you! Thanks for your perspective, can't wait for the rest of the posts. We all need to help each other in this homeschool journey so we can avoid repeating others mistakes, or at least be forewarned!
ReplyDeleteTraci
Thanks for this post. I still love the idea of CC but don't think it would be a great fit at this point (not to mention that we couldn't afford it!). I am anxious to see the rest of your homeschool posts! How is it that as soon as spring rolls around we start planning for next year? I've been mulling ideas around in my head too!
ReplyDeleteTraci - thanks for saying it was fair. And you know the whole shebang, so I'm glad you thought so.
ReplyDeleteMeg - I love the concept and materials. Good thing is you don't have to join (and pay) to read the stuff on your own.
Is it hard to teach on your own, essentials.
DeleteI'm working on re-mastering Essentials and riffing off of my education at CC to teach my own grammar and writing material. It isn't hard at all, once you understand it. It is hands down the best grammar program I've ever seen. I think most of the complaints about CC stem from a misunderstanding of their pedagogical method. I don't agree that young elementary should all be poll parrot, but what they do, they do very well. The beauty of CC is being able to move to any community and find a certain degree of sameness in the program. It is expensive, and it is rigorous, and sometimes I think kids need more poetry and less grammar. But I enjoyed one good year in CC and learned a lot myself.
DeleteI am a CC tutor (Essentials) and training involves a lot more than the 3-day training session. We also have to buy other materials, watch them or read them, get connected to other, more experienced tutors, get some certification (from IEW), etc. The tutors I've met all take their positions quite seriously and read privately at home books on classical education. I've personally listened to HOURS of seminars from the Circe Institute, etc. on classical education. I plan to read more this summer about classical ed also.
ReplyDeleteBut all of this belies the whole point of CC. The point of CC is that none of us have been classically educated. We must ALL learn along with our children. That's one of the reasons that tutors must attend classes with their students and/or have gone through the program before. I know that as a parent, I didn't bother to read all the Essentials materials or the IEW videos, etc. I assume most parents are that way. When I decided to become a tutor, I got very serious about my training and educating myself.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteWhen our tutor proved incompetent, I said I'd fill in as tutor. I was willing to invest my own time and resources to do it. I was told I *only* had to attend three days of classes, portions of which could be done online.
I agree; none of us has been classically educated. I was excited to offer that type of education to my children, and was thankful I would have a qualified, trained tutor to assist me. I did read the materials my children were assigned because I see myself as the teacher; the tutors at CC were there to assist me.
I take our home education very seriously, which is why our experience with CC was such a disappointment.
Thanks for stopping by,
Christy
It sounds like you may not be passionate about classical education in general and your experience with cc sealed the deal. I may be wrong but one thing you wrote about made me wonder what kind of home education you gravitate to? :) there are many forms. However, classical education values the idea that we should not specialize too early. Tutors are not experts and are not expected to have a comprehensive knowledge of the material. I learned the material with my students and was far from perfect. But I am not their instructor, their parents are. I was being paid to introduce material in creative and approachable ways, modeling the classical method.
ReplyDeleteYou said you disliked having lots of memory work early on and wanted more integration. Again it sounds like it's not just CC you disliked, but the classical method itself.
I am glad you have found a home education model you enjoy now. Peace,
Lana W
Lana - thanks for the comment. And you're correct; a traditional, classical education may not be the best form of education for my children. However, when I pay a good bit of money to someone who is touted as being a highly trained, classical tutor, I expect her to know what she's talking about. Corporate CC goes to great lengths to tell prospective parents that the tutors go through an extensive training in order to teach and train their students. Our tutor couldn’t even pronounce the Latin words, much less explain the rigorous logic material.
ReplyDeleteIf you are claiming the tutor’s job is just to introduce the material, perhaps CC should call itself a co-op. But if you are accepting money, you better know what you’re talking about and not hide behind the, “The parents are the true teachers,” malarkey.
Peace to you as well.
CC can be a wonderful program if it suits your family, but it is really, really dependent on your particular tutor. I have a good friend who is an amazing challenge director. She works really hard and does great things with those kids. It's not the program though, it's her. It's such an expensive program to take such a gamble with.
ReplyDeleteIt really sets tutors up for failure though. It is quite the rare person who can skillfully teach high school level Latin, Geometry, Biology, Writing, Lit and history. No one is good at all of those disciplines! If instead they had a single Latin teacher , math teacher, science teacher, history teacher.... each person could hone their craft and go deeply into their topic of greatest interest. It is much easier to find someone competent at many levels of a single subject, than someone competent at a single level in all subjects. ~ C
C - thanks for you comments. As you can imagine, I totally agree.
ReplyDeleteObviously your tutor should have been able to pronounce the Latin, however tutors are not paid much at all. They receive maybe two hundred per month for quite a bit of work. Also, the classical model doesn't believe in discussions at such a young age. Hiring tutors that specialize in individual subjects again defeats the purpose of a classical education. How then are subjects to be integrated if each tutor is not aware of what was discussed in another subject. This would only be at the upper levels of course.
ReplyDeleteWe participate in CC; however, we are not so sold on it that I am 100% certain we will do it all the way through. I have approached it differently though in that I don't want the tutor teaching my kids. I do that during the week. I want the tutor to facilitate discussion and present new material to my child for us to go over later even in the Challenge levels. I honestly think your situation was by no means the norm and I really hope that Director is gone. I would have definitely been upset in your shoes and it would have colored any future opinion of CC.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - CC cannot guarantee the tutors they place in the classroom are qualified. Buyer beware is all I'm saying.
ReplyDeleteTina - the director is not gone. Neither is the campus director.
I was a tutor this year and trust me, I didn't get anywhere near $200 per month. In fact, I wrote a check to the childcare worker every week that was bigger than my weekly earnings. Mind you, to a teenager who worked 2 hours to my 3, had no training, & no prep. Please be kind to your tutors; their job is truly a labor of love...and basically volunteer work.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - if it's basically volunteer work, why do we write y'all checks? Want to really make it a labor of love? Treat it as a co-op and don't get paid.
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm not against paying the tutors IF they are qualified. My main point was CC cannot guarantee the quality of their tutors, even though the campus directors sell the program by saying the tutors are all trained.
Again, what I'm saying is what I said above: buyer beware.
Amen!!!
DeleteI know this is an older post but for those who come upon it this may be important in making a decision to CC or not to CC- I was a tutor for Foundations and believe strongly in classical education but found CC lacking. As tutors were were told that we were not teachers but there to "model" the information for parents. We were not supposed to "teach" the material which was very difficult for me as a certified teacher with 2 master degrees. Some tutors could not even pronounce the words they were modeling and many had no clue what they were teaching especially in art and science but they did really try to learn enough to get by. The class is very time regimented and very little time is spent on the subjects. All detail is left for the parents. Decide if you want to pay for that. We were also told that we are a co-op that is not a co-op. Got that? Well, you do meet a lot of people who homeschool and that is a benefit for some and worth the price. For others, like me, it just isn't the kind of education I need to pay for when I can easily read the info and make up songs myself. Essentials (after 4th grade)is different and if your child needs help with grammar and writing and you are weak at teaching that at home then it might be for you. Personally, I think that training needs to start earlier but that is just my thing. Personally, I would be weary at the high school level from what I have seen because it will really depend on the tutor/director. I believe you could find someone who is proficient in most of the subjects but I would think that is rare. And trust me the pay as a tutor was not worth the hassle and not enough for me to return just for the pay. Most tutors stay because they buy into the program. I had to do what was right for my child. As do we all!
ReplyDeleteAll these comments make so much sense. I worked as a teacher in both public and private schools before we found cc. I now work as a cc tutor. I view it as volunteer work because it doesn’t even cover my kids cc tuition costs or my childcare costs for community day. As far as training though, I can honestly say that my cc practicums and IEW training has been more helpful to me in educating children than my four years at university getting my education degree. The training is good. Very, very good. Especially IEW training (you can do IEW with or without CC though).
ReplyDeleteSo far, I’ve been happy to pay my kids tuition and tutor and pay for childcare because the community and atmosphere has been by far the warmest, most welcoming educational atmosphere I have seen.
That may have to do with our specific community.
As far as the education goes, I find cc community days enough to cover the memory work. We do our own thing on the other 4 days. We use CTC math, Logic of English, Hillsdale K-12 history curriculum, and lots of novel reading. This is how we fill our week outside of cc community day. So, is it worth it? I don’t really know. I’m still there, so I guess my actions say yes, it is. But why is it worth it? Because we have bonded to the people in this group. We’ve found a place where people seem to care about each other and the kids regardless of their political affiliation or church denomination. We found a home where genuine human connection is a regular occurrence, where people are up front and honest in conflict, but gracious and compassionate as well. That’s a rare find.
And yet, I’m not sure whether my children will attend though high school or not. I’m not sure if I’m going to end up being the Challenge tutor or if we’ll take another route. We’ll have to take this one year at a time.
Thank you for providing such an informative blog. Choose our online tuition for history, at Ziyyara. With Ziyyara's tuition of History, you'll gain a solid foundation and develop critical thinking skills needed to excel. Don't miss out on this incredible opportunity – enroll now.
ReplyDeleteVisit Ziyyara.com or contact us at +91 9654271931